bobby_hoyt: are we talking about?

Track 1: Well, Robert, wh
what was your question?

robert: Oh, um, my question
was how often do you all cry?

Track 1: There you go.

robert: between

tears, like shedding one gangster tear
versus a full on sa and don't say never.

bobby_hoyt: I haven't done a,
I don't know the last time I've

done a full on, so that's been
years, and I'm pretty sure that

Okay.

decided not to do that in
my adult life or something.

I don't know.

I, I don't have any reasons
why that would happen.

Um,

do notice though, um, after
my wife gave birth to our son.

, movies hit different than they used
to because I didn't realize how much

movies pull on, like, the parent
heartstrings of like, you know,

something happens to the child.

And like, movies are way more
emotionally powerful to me than

they used to be before I had a kid.

I don't know why.

I mean, I just didn't
notice all that stuff.

And

something and like, they use it
a lot in like almost every movie

a kid dying or something
terrible happening and.

And then just, they play
on that fear a lot, so I, I

you know?

Track 1: Yeah, I would agree that
without going , too many levels deep

here, that the most recent times I've
cried have been because of a movie or

show . Movies and TV shows can make me
tear up again as a sort of new parent.

anytime there's a kid and they
lose a kid like that, oh man,

there's something about that that.

But I have a, you know, I kind
of know where to go in my Spotify

playlist if I want a good cry.

And, , you know, there's some songs
that will like not make me tear up.

I will kinda like be, be shedding
tears, bawling in my car,

listening to certain songs.

I won't be telling you , what
any of those songs are.

But, uh, that happens
every 3, 4, 5 months.

I'd probably.

ariel_gardner: I, yeah, , I
just, I cried like maybe.

a quarter.

How about that?

And like, uh, whenever I don't feel good,
I'll just cry cause I don't feel good.

and dad

Track 1: You just told us you
cried every single day because of

the abuse you get on this team.

bobby_hoyt: we're talking

ariel_gardner: Oh, that's right.

Shoot.

I mean, every day,
every day is when I cry.

Monday through Friday.

Working days.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah,

mean.

ariel_gardner: like a Monday holiday.

bobby_hoyt: I'm so mean to Ariel.

I'm such a terrible boss and just
angry and everything that she cries

every day, which it is what it is.

No, um, yeah, and Michael made me
tear up, but I think he teared up too.

But we were both drunk, so

Track 1: Yeah,

bobby_hoyt: and it was
like way, way, way too.

It was like four in the morning or
something and we had Maybe polished

off like an entire bottle of whiskey.

Uh, and we started
talking, it was about kids.

He said something about my kid
and I just, I teared up, man.

I remember

Track 1: I don't even remember this.

bobby_hoyt: Well, I

robert: That's hilarious.

bobby_hoyt: why I was a little
hesitant to even talk about this.

But, uh, Michael and I have, we do these
like retreats and what I've learned

is have to stop buying whiskey and
stick to beer and wine if we're gonna

Track 1: I think we, I think we need
to get like little mini bottles,

like three a piece or something.

That way the rest of the
bottle's not sitting there.

Cause what's happened?

It's like our last night we're like,
well, who's gonna take this whiskey home?

We gotta finish it now.

But

bobby_hoyt: we did that.

Yeah, we always argue and

yeah, it gets ugly,

Track 1: All right, Robert, what about

robert: Like every day.

I would say I probably have one
proper cry every 18 months and

Track 1: Wow.

That's spread out.

robert: yeah, I don't, I don't
like have a full on SOB very often.

and I will, I'll tear up at something
probably like once every two to three.

my cryp tonight though, for that
is the YouTube videos of like a

soldier coming back and surprising

Track 1: Oh man,

ariel_gardner: Oh yeah.

robert: that I don't know why

those

ariel_gardner: Uhhuh.

robert: get me.

And then the weird thing that always gets
me is like videos of people like finishing

marathons or like ultramarathons.

I have no idea why, but I'm always just.

So, so proud of the accomplishment
that they have made that like, it,

it, I like get actually choked up.

so weird.

bobby_hoyt: That's

Have you done one of those?

Is that why?

Is it like something where
you have, or are you just.

Seeing somebody

all it takes.

robert: I honestly, okay, so I've
done like a half marathon before.

And it just, I don't
know exactly what it is.

It feels to me it's like a triumph of
the human spirit, you know what I mean?

Of like, Hey, you used to be,
you know, you couldn't even run

a mile and, and look at you now.

You just ran 26.2 of 'em and your
family's there supporting you.

don't know, I just, I think
I know like how hard they had

to work to accomplish that.

Maybe that's why it gets me.

I don't.

Track 1: Wow.

ariel_gardner: Uh, you know, what also
gets me besides, , the soldiers coming

home, videos, any kind of like ceremony,
like a, a graduation, anybody being

like inducted into anything like a Boy
scout court of honor, like any type

of formal ceremony where like somebody
has presented something or like an

award and I could like, have no clue.

I, I could be strangers with
everybody there, but I will cry.

It just like, I'm so proud.

robert: That one.

Yeah, that one doesn't get me as much.

bobby_hoyt: one's.

ariel_gardner: no.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah.

I don't know if I've Ariel
loves everybody though.

Cares about everybody.

ariel_gardner: Yeah, I do.

I am really proud of everyone.

Track 1: Now we know, , where to
pull in each other's heartstrings.

Bobby, you seem like you're gonna
be the hardest to crack , I guess.

bobby_hoyt: I don't, well, I
mean, I've thought about like,

is there something wrong with me?

I don't cry, like I don't cry a
lot, but unless somebody like passes

away, but like I've never, even as
a kid, I didn't like cry a lot, so

I don't know, maybe I could just be
totally dead on the inside, you know?

Maybe that's

ariel_gardner: My
husband, he's not a crier.

only seen him cry.

We've been married for like 18
years I've only seen him cry once.

Track 1: Wow.

ariel_gardner: it was, yeah, one time
and it was when we had taken a road trip

out to the northwest and we drove like
a 1980 Volkswagen van again out there,

it broke down on the way back in Salt
Lake City and we had to leave it there.

And we had to rent a car and like
left the, the van again in like the

parking lot of a, a repair shop.

And as we're pulling out in this
like little like Toyota Corolla or

something, he just started like sobbing.

He

Track 1: The only time your husband
has cried in the marriage is

because you left a broken down car.

ariel_gardner: Yeah,

Track 1: Okie.

ariel_gardner: it was like he
thought that, like he, I think it

was because he had put so much work
into like getting it ready for the

trip and then it like didn't work.

You know?

Like he had failed us as

you know?

robert: Oh,

that's,

Track 1: feel like if we we keep talking,
we're gonna have to have a budget for a

psychologist to come in and help our team.

Guys.

Today on the podcast we've got
Bobby, our fearless leader.

We've got Ariel head of content.

We've got Robert, our email marketing
guy, and this is Michael, director of

Operations here at Millennial Money Man.

Wanna get straight into it today.

it.

The questionable decision this week.

, I've got a pretty good one here.

So, , Our dear leader, Bobby tried
to save money on his computer

monitor, uh, , but now he hates it.

He constantly complains about it.

It's not fully functional and , it's,
it creates like a lot of, um,, stress

and anxiety for us as his team.

So the question is, was that
a questionable decision?

So, Bobby, you wanna start us off?

bobby_hoyt: You

Track 1: Fill in, fill
in the details for us.

bobby_hoyt: that you
recommended this monitor to me.

Track 1: Well, Well, you left out a
key component, which is we all agreed

that the more expensive monitor
would've been better, but you were, you

weren't quite ready to make the leap

bobby_hoyt: time.

Okay.

At the time,

Track 1: to buy it.

bobby_hoyt: so I have
a lot of Apple stuff.

I, I think that Apple is great, but I have
been pissed off at Apple lately cuz every

freaking phone that comes out is exactly
the same as the last phone with the slide

Like, everything that they're doing
isn't, I don't think it's great anymore.

I think that they're just, they've figured
out that people just keep buying the stuff

and they're stupid, which myself included,
but, so I, I've been upset about.

And then I needed a new monitor
because I, I decided to go from the

iMac to like a, just a monitor setup.

And the new iMac hadn't come out yet,
so I was like looking at the monitors

and it was $2,000 for a monitor.

And I was like, this feels like robbery.

Like I, I'm tired of getting like
screwed by this company over and over

again, and I'm gonna buy this thing.

And it's just like a glorified.

I could find for cheaper.

So then you were like, well you
should get the Samsung inmate.

a great thing.

And you hadn't, and one

Track 1: I don't know.

That's a great thing.

bobby_hoyt: it.

You owned a previous model of it.

And I, and I trusted you because I was
like, you know, Michael's a smart guy and

know, I brought him into my company.

I trust him, I believe in him and
he's gonna steer me in the right

direction cuz he is also very.

so then I buy the thing and
it doesn't freaking work.

Like it's a, it's a garbage piece of,
, machinery that like, has all these issues.

And then I went from being like
a relatively decently okay person

with tech to now I'm just an idiot.

And so now I'm just, every time I log
into a meeting or nothing works and

everybody's sitting there waiting on me.

So, I'm mad at myself for not
just spending the money on it.

And next time I won't make that
mistake, but I also am gonna do it

because, I'm gonna do it begrudgingly

robert: You really, I feel like you've
been having a tough time with tech lately.

I mean, you, the, the monitor,

the microphone, the camera.

bobby_hoyt: The problem

robert: When did about, roughly,

bobby_hoyt: that's

ariel_gardner: you think it's
cuz you're getting older?

bobby_hoyt: Um,

do.

ariel_gardner: thirties, you

Track 1: Let's pivot.

Let's pivot here.

bobby_hoyt: No, I do think it's that too.

I've actually like been very aware
lately, like one of the big pushes

that we're making as a team.

And by the way, Robert's on
this podcast, nobody even

him.

Like everybody's against
it, introducing people

robert: That's not necessary.

bobby_hoyt: Um, but I, I've very
quickly, I started this business in 2015.

And it was a blog.

And in the, the span of time that
I've done that, like it's, I've become

like a dinosaur, like very quickly.

and that's how fast the tech stuff
moving and like, especially with like

TikTok and Instagram and all those
things, like, we're gonna be doing

all of that now and I think there's
still a lot of opportunity to do that.

But man, it, yes, I do feel old,
like very fast like it's really,

it's really like I, we've gotta stay.

One of my big things.

Moving forward and like think I'm
gonna put pressure on everybody

on the team to do is like, we have
to stay up on like whatever's new.

Like we just have to, I haven't
done a bad job of that, so

Track 1: Well, I hope we can make enough
money to hire people that can do that

better, because I feel it as well.

I'm, I'm almost 30, and you'd think,
oh, well, you know, if you just

keep your eyes on what's going on,
you can kind of understand what's

going on with TikTok and all that.

But, oh my gosh, these kids.

bobby_hoyt: fast.

Track 1: like, they are just like living
in their own universe with how they use

these things like TikTok and Snapchat.

And they have just like, they know how
to make money off of it and they know how

to like, manipulate it for advertising
and it's a lot to keep up with for sure.

I said the other day, I've, I finally
feel empathy for like, , generations

ahead of me that can't keep up with
the technology that I know about

because I'm, I'm feeling it myself.

ariel_gardner: As the oldest person
on this podcast, I am almost 40,

and I feel this very deeply, and
I think it's when you have kids,

they like suck your ability.

to, to stay up to date on things like
they occupy that space in your brain.

So Robert is the child free person here.

Like if you wanna stay up to date on the
happenings, you have to not have children

robert: you would, I would think
it would be the opposite, whereas

you would kind of like through
osmosis, be up to date on things.

bobby_hoyt: yeah.

ariel_gardner: well, I mean,
you like know some stuff, but

robert: not talking about you, Bobby.

ariel_gardner: like know about things,
but like you don't know how to.

you know what TikTok is, but
you don't know how to TikTok

bobby_hoyt: is that just, are we just
guessing, like Robert, do you feel

like you aren't keeping up with things

robert: So I've been thinking
about this as we've been talking

about it, and here's what I
think my problem is, is that I.

I think I'm more up to date
than I actually am, right?

It's like I feel young and hip,
but anytime I find myself around

someone who is, you know, 20 to 24

I feel like a dinosaur.

So I think I just have a misconception

my own, hip.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah.

I, I can't, it's hard to keep

ariel_gardner: That's fun,

bobby_hoyt: like totally separate
from like the technology thing.

But I've always wondered about that,
like when you see somebody that's

older, like they can't, they're fumbling
around with their phone and they

need help with their phone and stuff.

I've never felt that way before until
more recently where I'm like, I don't

know how to use things sometimes.

And I'm like, Michael, how do I do this?

And I can tell Michael's like, oh
God, this guy's driving me nuts.

Where like, only a few years apart.

But I'm like, there it, it is.

And I have too many.

Different tech things

I think that's part of the problem too.

But it all

ariel_gardner: Nothing, nothing.

bobby_hoyt: me by giving me a bad
recommendation for a thing that he

didn't even buy, and I just trust
him a little bit too much too soon.

robert: Here's add to this actually.

Um, I think the, the
difference between the

as I understand it, the price difference
was pretty large, when you think about

something that you're gonna be using
for, for work every day, you, you

know, our whole business plan, right.

You, you have to be able.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Would you like to?

Yeah.

Would you like to share?

bobby_hoyt: yeah.

Track 1: Hold on.

This is proprietary.

Like I may have to bleep this out.

If you tell people what
our business plan is.

robert: Is it okay for me to share it?

Or Bobby, do you wanna be the one who

Track 1: Oh gosh.

Right.

bobby_hoyt: it

robert: for the first time ever?

bobby_hoyt: with this.

No, it took

with this, but I'm ready to share

robert: Okay.

Track 1: right guys.

Pay attention,

robert: let the people know what it is.

Well, hang on, hang on.

How can we preface this?

How can we add a little more hype to this?

This is the business plan you've
developed after, earning boatloads

of money online over the past.

, what.

Eight years took you a really
long time to arrive at this.

A lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

Okay.

bobby_hoyt: Not tears as much, but

Blood,

robert: Not tears.

We,

Of course.

Blood and sweat.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah.

yeah.

Yeah, no, the

is, and I tell this to
the team very seriously.

We're gonna make money with the
website week, then next week we're

gonna make money with the website.

And then the week after that we're
also gonna make money with the website.

And what we need to do is just
continue to do that single week until

we're making a lot of money with
the website all the time, every.

robert: and

Track 1: the, on the.

ariel_gardner: strategy.

robert: yeah.

bobby_hoyt: it's a, it's a long game too.

You just have to follow

every single day.

robert: And, and so my point is just that,
you know, if, if that's our strategy, you

would think that the tool that's gonna
allow you to access the website, it's

worth spending a few extra dollars on.

Track 1: The place you see the internet
where we make all of our money.

bobby_hoyt: Well, okay.

To be fair, this isn't, this isn't

either.

This isn't an $800 monitor.

Like I didn't, when I bought it, I
wasn't sitting there going like, oh,

this is like a cheap piece of crap.

Which is a little strong.

I don't think it's that, but I,
what I didn't what I, what I didn't

see coming, I didn't see the.

The problem is, is just the, like
when I plug it into the computer,

it doesn't work all the time.

Like it's just, there's a, I think
that the seamless integration

with an Apple product, so like,

I just don't, I just don't like it.

But I don't know.

I think it was,

this and, and not go with my gut of
just spending more money and getting

Track 1: Well, and where, where I think
it all comes down to if you had spent

less money on some other gadget, you know,
okay, you, , you, you made a decision.

But I do think you, you run two
internet companies, you have an office

with like four pieces of essential
equipment, kind of feels like you

should tend towards the premium.

bobby_hoyt: don't know why you're talking
down to me when you suggested this monitor

Track 1: Well, I didn't seig, I, I , I, I,

robert: It kind of feels like you
shouldn't have done what I said,

bobby_hoyt: Yeah, I feel like, I feel like

robert: You should have known better

bobby_hoyt: you're talking about
it like you're not involved in it.

Like you were very much
involved with this like

Track 1: I tried, I tried to offer
you like some alternative when I

knew you weren't willing to take.

Maybe I should just push
you into your convictions.

bobby_hoyt: No, you

about this monitor too,

Track 1: No, the and, and the, well,

bobby_hoyt: do you think?

Like, I'm thinking about getting one too.

This is great.

So

Track 1: well, and, and so the
little bit of background is

I bought my wife the M seven.

, I would never buy it for myself.

. not getting that from me.

But, uh, uh, I bought my wife the M seven.

It's a, it's a big size.

Uh, , it, it's, you know,
the quality's good enough.

Um, so I, I thought that that was good.

And then the inmate form
factor, I felt was very nice

and I think it does look good.

I think you would agree about that.

It's a good looking device.

bobby_hoyt: mean, yeah.

Track 1: so I, I mean, I guess I'm sorry.

I do think it was a questionable
decision and, uh, in the future I'll

push you to just spend more money.

bobby_hoyt: I'm glad.

you advise me on things that
they, they're questionable,

robert: I love that response to someone
doing what you suggest to them though.

Like if it doesn't work out,
like, well, you should have known

better than to listen to me.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah, I

robert: think that's great.

bobby_hoyt: I think it's great.

I don't know if that technically
is gaslighting, but it's It's

robert: gonna keep that in my back pocket.

bobby_hoyt: You should, yeah.

All right, so this next segment is
called Get the Guru, but I believe we're

just gonna be talking crap about gurus
at some from different industries or

ariel_gardner: Well, the, , premise
for the segment is that there's a

lot of guru advice out there now
with social media and bloggers.

Even podcast hosts will all be gurus
at some point offering advice, but

that we have to sort of like take
some of it with a grain of salt.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah.

Okay.

ariel_gardner: least question what
they're putting out into the world.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Track 1: And, and this one particular,
I think you're gonna have to put a

lot of salt to make it palatable.

ariel_gardner: some onions, maybe.

bobby_hoyt: so if, you know, speaking
of TikTok and Instagram and all the

things that, that I'm not great at,
but we will be great at, , if you've

been on TikTok or Instagram at all,
you've probably seen this absolutely

jacked, ridiculous looking guy that
walks around without a shirt on ever.

Uh, huge beard, like just looks.

Pretty like he hasn't taken a shower
because I don't think he takes showers

and I can't, I'm not sure on that.

But Liver king, right?

So Liver King blew up over the
last probably year and a half,

two years, and uh, it's got
millions of followers like just.

Whatever.

He's this guy that's like a health
guy or like ancestral living guy.

Like, everything is like primal and
like he's, he's trying to teach people

to like live by these nine ancestral
tenants, , which we'll talk about,

but like basically everybody has been
accusing him of being on steroids for.

because he clearly looks
like he's on steroids.

Like if anybody looks like a person
that takes steroids, he is it.

And he, he is sworn that he didn't do it.

It's all because these nine tenets of
ancestral living that he does, he works

out a lot and all that kind of stuff.

Um, he had these very like
politician like answers.

Every time somebody would ask him
if he was on steroids, he was very

good at just kind of like, just
avoiding the question completely.

And so it came out the
other day on Twitter.

Uh, somebody dropped one of the emails
that he, I guess, had sent to a trainer

or some, some person that he had worked
with where he listed out all of the

things that he's been taking for years.

So like whole thing is,
is just a fraud, right?

And like they, but so
that's what this came from.

We were talking about it.

Robert didn't wanna talk
about this for some reason.

I'm not totally sure why.

But

to do with marketers and, and this
guy was marketing himself, right?

Like he was, he was a
marketer for his company.

He makes supposedly a hundred million
a year from his supplement companies.

And he was selling these supplements
based on this ancestral living thing.

But really he was just doing steroids.

So like the way that he did, I
wouldn't say just doing steroids,

that's probably not fair.

But he, I mean, I'm sure he works hard,
but like he was selling something that

he was not actually doing at scale

Track 1: Yeah.

And

bobby_hoyt: that,

Track 1: you?

Well,

bobby_hoyt: that?

Okay.

Is that not okay?

I mean, if you help people, you know,
that's where I kind of go with it.

But

Track 1: yeah.

It's called lying.

bobby_hoyt: yeah,

Track 1: He, he's a liar,

bobby_hoyt: That's fair.

Track 1: so that's not okay.

Uh, I've seen like a lot of apologi
over the past, you know, week or so,

or however many days since that's come
out, and there's just no way around it.

It's not marketing, it's lying.

Uh, you know, I don't
know where you're gonna.

What your thought was on this, Robert,
but, uh, I think people like this deserve

to crash, burn, and never, you know, you
know, just live and squalor for those

lives because they're lying to people.

Um, I mean, this is no different than
selling some, you know, water pill, you

know, that's gonna change your life.

Um, So I don't, I don't have a whole
lot of love for the Liberty King.

Uh, I think that, uh, there's obviously
some good things about, you know,

some of his teachings, but I think
when you make money make a hundred

million a year, which let's, let's all,

bobby_hoyt: I don't think he

Track 1: let's all, let's all take that
with a grain of salt, you know, uh, as

we know he's a liar, so there's a good
chance he's not making that much money.

I think it's, it's squirmy and, and
nasty and, I imagine he does smell bad.

bobby_hoyt: Well, that he smells bad
probably because he doesn't use deodorant.

He's like very against the, uh, I guess
there's, uh, aluminum in deodorants or

robert: Yeah,

ariel_gardner: Mm-hmm.

bobby_hoyt: that.

Track 1: Robert, do you use deodorant?

robert: no,

Track 1: I don't either.

robert: I use a crystal,

Track 1: Errol, do you use deodorant?

Okay.

Right, right.

Just just wonder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Those don't work.

So you don't wear Theodor,

ariel_gardner: like baking powder, you
know, baking soda, not baking powder,

Track 1: Bobby, I'm guessing you
just straight up where Deodorant.

bobby_hoyt: I

Track 1: Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Cool.

robert: 48 hour interperate,

bobby_hoyt: uh,

robert: I'm guessing.

bobby_hoyt: think so, yeah, I don't

robert: good stuff.

bobby_hoyt: whatever it works.

I mean, it's, I don't smell like
garbage, I don't think, and I

don't know if my wife says it
smells good, so I'm cool with that.

I don't care, uh, his whole
thing that like, okay.

My question about it, and this is
where Ariel and I, when we were kind

of planning this, What if when you're
doing something like he was doing where

he was basically at a very, very basic
level was telling people to eat better

and to work out a lot and get enough
sleep, do cold plunges, like the things

that he talks about are all good things?

I, well, I don't know if
they're all good things.

I mean, he talks about like
eating raw liver and, and all

organs and all that kind of stuff,
and that's like his big shtick.

Like he eats a ton of the stuff on
camera and it's really gross, but.

If the net benefit of him lying
about this is actually helping a

lot of people, because I'm sure he
is probably helped a ton of people

cuz he is got a big fan base.

Like what's, how do you like, if it's a
net positive, like, is it really that bad?

Like yes, he's lying in this, that's
bad, but is he only lying because

he thought nobody would take him
seriously if he wasn't ripped?

robert: So I've been,
I've been following this.

bobby_hoyt: You have been okay.

robert: I've been, I've
been following, yes,

yes,

ariel_gardner: Please before
you guys go into anything,

of the, of the Liver King before
we started talking about this.

And he is like the kind of person I
would see online and just like have a, an

immediate like, visceral reaction to like,

bobby_hoyt: Oh, not

ariel_gardner: of wanna make like vomit a

Track 1: Describe, describe more of
what, what a person like that is for you.

ariel_gardner: Just so like the cordy
muscles and the, uh, I don't know.

bobby_hoyt: the, yeah, all the stuff.

Yeah.

ariel_gardner: Yeah, that's,
it's, it's just too much for me.

Like it looks unnatural.

Like it's unnatural this day and
age, I think, to look like that

Track 1: As it turns out, it is unnatural.

bobby_hoyt: Yeah.

ariel_gardner: Exactly.

But I did like look up his tenets and
even as much as I like, think this guy

is probably full of shit, think that,
I mean, he, like you said, Bobby, like.

kind of preach some decent things like
you need to sleep, you need to eat

healthy foods, you need to get in the sun.

You need to get cold.

I, I mean, I don't know that.

Have think that that's like a 10 that
you should follow, but like, I, I

don't know, like I think he is probably
helping some people live a, a healthier

life than they're used to and like
yeah, there maybe is some benefit to

doing that if you're lying about it.

It's kind of shady if you're saying that
like, I look the way I look and I'm this

way cause I've only done those things,
but the, the idea of this like half truth

maybe like is there some benefit to.

bobby_hoyt: if

Track 1: Well, I have
strong feelings on this.

bobby_hoyt: might have, I,
Robert seems to know more about

all of this than any of us.

I don't know if you can reach
people at scale the way that he

did with that kind of a health
message without looking like that.

Like, I don't know if you can't,
like, I don't know if that's

something you have to do to.

days, like on the internet,
you have to look like that.

And the only way to look
like that is to do steroids.

Like, I don't know.

But that seems to me like that's
probably where this came from,

where he was like, I work out a lot.

A lot of men like deal with this, where
they work out a lot and they start

to get older and they can't get the
same kind of physique that they want.

He's got a brand about healthy living.

He was struggling with it, so he started
taking all the stuff and then he didn't.

Caught is why?

Cause his business depended
on him looking a certain way.

And so then he is got
all these mouths to feed.

Like I could see it snowballing that way.

And not just him going, I'm gonna lie
to people like, but that's just me

thinking maybe that there's a, he's
a better person than he maybe is.

I.

robert: Yeah, so I've been
following all of this stuff.

religiously over the past week, but
I think it's all super interesting.

Um, and like the way that I, I
guess first started actually paying

attention to Liver King stuff was
like I, me and a friend were having

a conversation about him and we were
like, do you think he's on steroids?

Um, and so then after that I went and just
like checked out his stuff on Instagram.

And I think it's all like
really interesting, right?

Like the non ancestral tenants.

All four.

I love that stuff.

I love a good cold plunge.

I love walking around barefoot.

I love being in the sun.

Um, and so if you watch, so he put out
an apology video about this, and I don't

know if you guys have seen that or not,
but he basically, he makes the point that

you're saying Bobby, where it's like, you
know, I thought that if I talked about

this, it would detract from the message.

And so I think like I, I.

The challenge that most people have with
it is this idea of you look this way,

you're applying that it's all natural.

You sell these supplements, you
talk about these supplements in

all of your like Instagram stories
and stuff, and so you are profiting

off of this falsehood, right?

And so I think that's the
challenge people have.

I think the decision that was made
somewhere along the line, cause like

he had the goal, if you look at the,
the entire email thread, he was like,

I wanna reach a million followers by
March, 2021 or, or whenever it was.

Right.

He knew exactly what he wanted to
do and so I think it was just a

calculation of like, I'm gonna be
able to reach more people if I, you

know, look this way, do these types of
videos, this is how I'm gonna go viral.

And I saw somebody on, in a Facebook
group the other day mention like,

there at least had to be some
sort of calculation of like, okay.

If it comes out that I'm on steroids,
what's the net benefit versus the

net loss and how am I going to
handle that from a PR perspective?

So I think there was like some conscious
choice in all of it of like, need to

do this to blow up and if worst case
scenario, here's how I'm gonna address it.

Track 1: I think you give a lot
of credit to people like that.

Um, I, I mean, I think regardless
of, I, I mean this comes down

to utilitarianism, right?

Like does the outcome.

Justify the means.

And I think that right and wrong is
not based off of what it accomplishes.

I don't think that the Liver King owned
the nine ancestral, uh, tenant, you

know, and they're not really that novel.

There's plenty of people that talk about,
um, those tenants better than he does or

in more depth than actually help people.

So I think you have someone here who
through some combination of social

media prowess and shock and awe, That
shock and awe to not just try and teach

people he was selling products, right?

There's plenty of people who want to
teach people and there's plenty of

people who are natural and, and do
that, but it's okay to, if you wanna

be on steroids, okay, that's fine.

But to lie about it and then to
sell products behind it, I mean,

what there, that isn't just,
that's not justified in my opinion.

bobby_hoyt: I

Track 1: so I don't know.

bobby_hoyt: the right thing that he did.

I just.

I don't know.

I would like to know more about like
how, how that all like, yeah, he had

goals and stuff, but I think you see
this a lot with the internet now.

It's like people have to do, they feel
like they have to do certain things to

maintain their business or to grow their
business and they're things that like you

wouldn't wanna do, like people get plastic
surgery and like all sorts of stuff.

Like, and I, and I think that, I
don't know, I wonder if how many

people get trapped in that versus.

I, I actually don't really
care that he did steroids.

I think it's bad that he lied about it.

I think it would've been smarter for him
to just say, yeah, I do, I do steroids

in addition to all these other things.

And that's why it looked like this.

If you don't wanna look quite like this,
but you still wanna look close to this,

then you can do these other things.

I think that would've been smarter.

But I don't know.

I, I have a feeling that he probably, a
lot of people get trapped in this stuff

instead of just like plotting it out and
trying to be like an evil mastermind.

So I, I give him some, maybe some
grace without knowing him at all.

He

robert: Yeah, so I think like,

ariel_gardner: little.

I think there is maybe more of
a trend recently to having like

influencers kind of be a little bit
more transparent about what goes

into who they are in their identity.

And I, I think that's something that
we're seeing because we, because of

people like Liver King or you know,
somebody who's had plastic surgery that's

promoting some like diet, type trend.

Um, And, and, and I think it's
smart when those influencers do it.

And like, as a customer, I would
rather buy something from somebody

who is just completely honest and,
and says like, listen, this is,

uh, you know, this is who I am.

This is what I've done to, to look a
certain way or to to be the person I

am that that's in front of you, I mean,
I'm not gonna buy anything from the

liver king ever, but I, I would be more
willing to do that if they, if there

is that honesty and openness up front.

And I think that you're seeing
more of that because there is that

realization, like I think the, the
whole, uh, influencers on a pedestal

thing has kind of started to crumble
a little bit and grateful for that.

So.

bobby_hoyt: I

robert: Yeah, I think I was listening to,
um, Joe Rogan had a podcast the other day

with a guy named Derek , who was the one
who sort of brought this all to light?

Right?

And they were talking about like
the ethics of people like that

saying like, Hey, I am on steroids.

Right?

And it's like when you think
about the audience of the Liver

King or somebody like that, a
lot of it is like, Younger dudes.

And so you think about if your
audience is like 16, 17 year old

guys, do you want to influence them
to say like, oh, if I wanna look like

that, then I need to do steroids?

Right.

So it's like, it's kind of this double
edged sword where if you are honest about

this is what it takes to look like that
you're potentially influencing people to

make decisions that aren't necessarily.

And their best health interest.

So

Track 1: Yeah, it's, it's almost like.

robert: complicated topic,

ariel_gardner: honest about it.

it sounds co.

I mean, he could, he could
be, you know, like once you

reach 35 start taking steroids.

I don't know, like.

bobby_hoyt: Well, I
think, I don't even know.

I mean, I think there's a lot of
probably misconceptions about steroids

and what they are because the more
that I've kind of like seen some of

the stuff, like a lot of it isn't,
Like it's more like testosterone and,

and other things that aren't what
I would think of as like steroids,

which I don't even know what that is.

Like I, I've always thought of
it as just some kinda like crazy

chemicals that you put in your body.

Like it doesn't seem like it's that
outside of the realms of like if you went

to a testosterone doctor, like what some
of them would do and somebody would then

knows way more than me would have to.

Clean that up.

But it just seems like there's kind of
like levels to it and some things are

actually like doctors are saying, yes,
you should be doing this if you're a man,

cuz your testosterone and levels have
dipped and like, this is good for you.

Um, so I don't know.

It's just, it's a weird,
it is a weird thing.

He probably should just
been honest though.

Does he get bigger now?

Not, not in terms of
just like getting jacked?

Like

he,

robert: like physically,
does he get bigger?

bobby_hoyt: does this, does
this, is this good for him?

Like, does this actually, cause I saw
his apology video and all that stuff.

Like, does his brand grow from.

ariel_gardner: I think

does with it, like what he does next.

bobby_hoyt: think, I think that it's
like, I think the, the age that we

live in now is like, and I think this
has been true for a while anyway, but

controversy is good for your brand.

Like I think he's actually gonna come
out of this with way more followers,

way more people knowing who he is,
because like people like us are

even talking about it to people that
have never heard about him before.

So I think it actually, like there's

he probably has known that this is gonna.

For a long time anyway.

Wouldn't surprise me

he was reading something when
he did his, like his apology.

I wouldn't surprise me if he's had that
sitting around for like a year, just

for whenever it comes out, you know?

So I

robert: Yeah.

I think what it'll

bobby_hoyt: think it's good for you,

Track 1: All right guys.

Be on the lookout for Bobby, uh, making
some outrageous claim of something he's

never done so that we can grow as a brand

bobby_hoyt: I'm just saying that's the
ne, I'm not saying we should do that, but

I do think that's what's gonna happen.

Like I think that he's gonna benefit.

All the controversy surrounding it.

I don't think he's

robert: Yeah, I think that'll.

think that'll be really interesting.

And one thing that like I've, I've
noticed a little bit, even when I talk

about it, is like the verbiage you
use about liver king, like, do you

say liver king is, or Liver king was.

And I like, when I've been thinking
about it, I've been noticing myself

using the phrase like liver king was.

And it's like, oh man, is
he, is he gone now or what?

So it'll be interesting to see
what happens in the next month or.

ariel_gardner: All right guys.

Thank you,

bobby_hoyt: Oh, crap, Go ahead.

I blew it.

I blew it.

Go ahead, Ariel.

ariel_gardner: Thank you for
listening to Questionable Decisions.

We wanna hear your decisions
so we can determine whether

or not it was questionable.

You can text it to us at 3 2 1 2 2 2
0 2 0 3 and we'll be back next week

with another questionable decision.

Talk soon.

robert: Amen.